🎙Interview: Rachel Karp, Sarah Gabrielli & Jen McGinity
🎙Interview: Rachel Karp, Sarah Gabrielli & Jen McGinity
4/17/24
Rachel Karp (she/her, Story Producer/Marketing + Social Media Manager)
Rachel is a freelance producer, writer, and director. She has served as producer on the podcast "The Black Wine Guy Experience" (Necessary Media) and associate producer on various unscripted television projects including "Sometimes When We Touch" (Gunpowder + Sky/Paramount+) and "Customer Wars" (Meetinghouse TV/A+E).
Sarah Gabrielli (She/They, Host/Audio Engineer/Story Producer)
Sarah is a podcast producer and journalist. She also co-hosts and audio engineers “Chicken Shirt,” a Roseanne re-watch podcast. She has worked as an audio engineer and story editor for Well+Good podcasts, and has also edited the podcasts "Shame Spiral," "Sweetbitter," and "Cult America." Sarah holds a Master's degree from the Craig Newmark Graduate School of Journalism at CUNY.
Jen McGinity (she/her, Producer/Resident Road Trip Driver)
Jen is a NY-based line producer and production manager with 20 years of experience. She currently serves as production manager for Major League Baseball Network. Jen has worked on a multitude of projects spanning news, reality television, and digital media for networks such as Food Network, HGTV, VICE, TLC, A&E, Animal Planet, and ABC News.
Email the Cruising team at cruisingpod@gmail.com.
Learn more about the Cruising podcast by visiting the the website and following the show on TikTok and Instagram @cruisingpod. Also, want to support the show? Consider making a donation!
Where did the idea for Cruising come from?
In 2020, the fact that there were so few lesbian bars remaining in the U.S. started to get some press. NBC News said there were 16. Go Magazine said 15. On New Years Eve heading into 2021, I (Rachel) turned to Sarah (audio journalist and my best friend) and Jen (line producer and my then-girlfriend, now fiancé) and said “what if we visit every lesbian bar in the U.S. and make a podcast about it?” They were crazy enough to say yes, and the idea for Cruising Podcast was born!
The three of us had been wanting to collaborate on a podcast for some time; we thought it would be a great opportunity to combine all of our skill sets and make something really awesome. At first, the idea was somewhat of a pipe-dream. But nearly eight months later, we were hitting the road for a 30 day, 10,000 mile road trip to visit all 21 known, open and operating lesbian bars in the country.
You all started this podcast in year two of COVID, after vaccines were released and you could travel more safely. What was the impact of COVID that you were seeing on lesbian bars across the country?
COVID definitely had a big impact on lesbian bars throughout the U.S., just as it impacted all small businesses. Most lesbian bars don’t actually own the spaces they occupy, so they had to contend with continuing to pay rent while they were closed and unable to bring in any income. Many bars started GoFundMes or applied for small business loans and grants to keep their spaces during the shutdown. As bars started to re-open, many instituted vaccination requirements, even in more conservative areas where this type of requirement was not a widespread practice.
I’m not familiar with too many podcasts where you are following along on a road trip. For the audio craft nerds among us, what were the logistics like for recording a show that’s on the move?
It wasn’t too logistically complicated! We only used one recording device for the entirety of season one while on the road. We were able to coordinate with *most* of the bars ahead of time and would typically set up times to do interviews inside the bars themselves on off (or less busy) hours. I (Sarah) would often try to do one interview over the phone ahead of time so as to get a sense for the bar/story we would be working with. Once in town, we’d basically spend the afternoon doing interviews at the bar, and then the evening hanging out there and getting a bit more tape.
In your first episode (which was released in 2021), you all share that there were less than 25 lesbian bars in the United States, down from over 200 around the 1980s. And by the beginning of season two (2023) you said that 8 new bars had opened. You’ve speculated in previous interviews the possible reasons for the initial decline, but can you speak a little more about why that has been a little bit of a resurgence?
I think the resurgence of the lesbian bar is ultimately about pop culture and awareness. Culturally, we kind of forgot for a while, the value of the lesbian bar. And I’m sure many in the younger generation never really knew to begin with, because there are so many other bars and establishments you can frequent as an out gay person. That’s all amazing, but it doesn’t change this sort-of unmatched community and safety and shared experience that queer women can find at a lesbian bar. People needed a little kick in the butt a few years ago, when all of those articles came out about lesbian bar closures, to get back into their local lesbian bar and to start thinking about opening their own. Not to mention, it’s suddenly cool again to be a lesbian? That will do wonders for business.
I previously interviewed Vanessa Maria Quirk, who works on the Urban Roots podcast, which is about historic preservation. While I have her perspective, I would love to know from you all why you believe it is important to document these spaces?
These spaces are not just bars, they’re community centers. At one point in time, they offered protection to the gay community when being gay itself was criminalized. Today and throughout history, they have served as venues for activism and political organizing. They are gathering places for chosen families, many even offering Christmas and Thanksgiving dinners. In documenting older bars, both those that have been around for decades and those that have since closed their doors, we’ve also found ourselves documenting local and national LGBTQ+ histories.
If we want to talk about the impact of your show, one of the cool things is one of the newer lesbian bars–Femme Bar–claimed that your show helped to inspire the opening. Have you heard any more anecdotes about how your show has impacted folks on the individual level or on the business level?
We’ve definitely heard from a lot of individuals who have been impacted by the show. We’ve heard from individuals who have listened to “Cruising” as they discovered their sapphic or lesbian identities for the first time, folks who have listened to the podcast as they transitioned. We’ve had queer, sober folks reach out and say they’ve been moved by the stories of alcoholism, addiction, and sobriety that we’ve shared on the podcast.
One of our goals in making “Cruising” was to reach folks who might not have access to queer space in real life, and we love hearing from people who feel like the show has offered them a sense of community!
One of the observations you all have made about the experience of traveling to these bars is that you see a lot of intergenerational community-building taking place. In your opinion, what is the value of growing these relationships–particularly as queer people?
Making intergenerational connections, particularly connecting with queer elders, has been the most rewarding part of creating this podcast and traveling to all of these spaces. LBGTQ+ rights and attitudes towards LGBTQ+ in the U.S. have changed immensely in the past 60ish years. We still have a long way to go, but it’s important to recognize where we’ve come from and what the generations before us have gone through so that we have the rights we have today. You can sit down next to someone at a lesbian bar and they will have lived so much of LGBTQ+ history firsthand. They might tell you about getting arrested for wearing masculine clothing, or having to sign a morals clause to teach in public schools, or about bar raids and it being against the law just to serve alcohol to a gay person.
What do you think is important for people to know about lesbian bars, especially if they are not from the queer community but want to support?
“Anyone’s welcome, just don’t be an a**hole!” We’ve heard this sentiment from bartenders, owners, and regulars at lesbian bars across the country. We can say confidently that every single one of these bars is welcoming to people that do not identify as lesbians, it’s just about being respectful of the space and the people in it. So if you have any interest in experiencing and/or supporting a lesbian bar - you should definitely go! There’s something really unique and special about spaces created by queer women. There’s warmth, and community, and an intentionality to be inclusive that’s a lot harder to find at other kinds of bars.
Is there any new or upcoming work that you would like to share with us?
We have a few exciting things in the works for Cruising - but none we can talk about yet! On a very different note, our team recently launched a talk-style comedy podcast called “Chicken Shirt.” It’s a rewatch of the original sitcom “Roseanne,” also hosted by our very own Sarah Gabrielli. For our Cruising fans - there’s a lot of gay television history wrapped up in the show Roseanne! It’s not entirely unrelated!
If this show’s topic interests you, you might also want to check out the Sounds Like Impact interview with Blake Pfeil of abandoned: The All-American Ruins Podcast podcast.