🎙Interview: Renee Bracey Sherman & Regina Mahone
Meet the hosts of The A-Files: A Secret History of Abortion.
Regina Mahone (she/her) is a writer and journalist covering reproductive health, rights, and justice issues. She currently serves as senior editor at The Nation magazine. Mahone and Bracey Sherman are co-authors of the forthcoming book Liberating Abortion from Amistad/HarperCollins and co-hosts of the podcast The A-Files: A Secret History of Abortion.
Follow Regina on Twitter & Instagram - @byreginamahone
Renee Bracey Sherman (she/her) is an abortion activist, writer, and founder and co-executive director of We Testify, an organization dedicated to the leadership and representation of people who have abortions. She is the co-author of Liberating Abortion: Our Legacy, Stories, and Vision for How We Save Us, co-host of The A Files: A Secret History of Abortion, a podcast from The Meteor, and executive producer of the award-winning documentary Ours To Tell about abortion experiences.
Follow Renee on Twitter - @rbraceysherman & Instagram - @reneebraceysherman
Learn more about the The A Files podcast by visiting The Meteor website. You can also keep up with The Meteor on Instagram and Twitter @themeteor.
Both of you–to borrow the phrase–are not new to this, but are true to this when it comes to talking about abortion access. Why did you both decide that a podcast series was the next frontier when it came to your storytelling about abortion?
Regina: I remember seeing somewhere that podcasts are “out” in 2024, but I don’t agree! I love podcasts and so many of the folks I know listen to them religiously. So for us, it seemed like a natural next step. We had been doing a ton of research about abortion for our book, Liberating Abortion, which will be out in the fall from Amistad/HarperCollins, as we were watching state lawmakers and then the US Supreme Court overturn Roe v. Wade. As two Black women who have had abortions, we were tired of not seeing people who had abortions centered in the conversations around abortion access. Cindi Leive at The Meteor heard us talking about these issues and asked us if we had thought about creating a podcast, and the seed was planted.
I feel like those hyper visible in the public conversations about abortion are white cis women. You both approach this issue as Black cis women.
Fill in the blank: It’s critical that folks see abortion through an intersectional lens because…
Renee: that’s exactly what it is. The ability to decide if, when, and how you grow your family is impacted by who we are, where we live, what our bodies look like, and what we can afford. That decision impacts and is impacted by whether you have a place to live, food to eat, money to travel, time off of work, and feel safe and healthy at home and in your body. On a basic level, the majority of people who have abortions are people of color. To tell the story of abortion and only elevate the experiences of cis white women, is not only erasure of our lived experiences, it’s factually inaccurate.
Regina: everyone is affected by abortion and the people who are hardest hit by restrictions and attempts to make it inaccessible sit at the intersections of multiple oppressions. And, those same folks have for decades been used as bargaining chips by elected officials from both parties. Often people think of the Hyde Amendment, and that is true that the Hyde Amendment has remained in effect for more than 45 years, not allowing people receiving government-sponsored insurance from using their coverage for abortion care. But there are also countless people who have needed later abortions who could not access that care or who suffered needlessly because later abortions are a lightning rod among the so-called pro-choice party. When we don’t center the people who are most devastated by bans, we all lose.
I’ve already used the word abortion like five times. One of the points that the podcast really drives home is that we need to say the word abortion. Language evolves and word choice is important, but what is the elevator pitch as to why–for folks who have been saying “reproductive rights”, “right to choose”, “bodily autonomy”–to transition back to saying abortion?.
Regina: Conservatives want us to NOT say the word “abortion,” because it adds to the shame and stigma people might feel. Now more than ever it is crucial to use the word “abortion” when that is what you mean. In using the word, it’s a way to destigmatize what is an incredibly common and sometimes even mundane experience for folks. Abortion has existed for centuries and will always exist whether or not it’s legal. Not to mention, as we point out in episode four on criminalization, Love Abortion? Don’t Talk to Cops, the issue of legality is a social construct. The laws exist to control if, when, and how we decide to grow our families. By saying the word abortion, we are reclaiming what has always been ours.
I almost caught myself saying, it’s unfortunate that abortion has gotten so politicized. To an extent, that IS true. But in a way, I’m hopeful because it has raised the stakes for people to care about local policy. Your episode “You Can’t Fix Abortion Without Voting Rights!” talks about the impact of gerrymandering on abortion access, and you all rightfully call out that we are taught to be more concerned about Presidential elections than local or mid-term elections.
What are some ways your relationship with local politics has changed since your advocacy for abortion began?
Renee: Well, as we break down in the first episode and the seventh, the one on gerrymandering that you mentioned, abortion wasn’t always a political issue. It was chosen as an issue to segregate voters in service of white supremacist ideology in the late 1970s and has been built up that way ever since. The right to an abortion isn’t a politically divisive issue, but it has been portrayed that way in the news and in our politics because politicians who have lied, cheated, and stolen their way into office make it a cornerstone of their campaign. Those politicians work overtime to ban abortion to the detriment of any and every other issue that would serve our communities, including issues that make pregnancy safer and ensure babies and children have food, housing, childcare, and education.
We think it’s absolutely important for people to stay engaged politically, but it’s critical that we all stay engaged between the ballot drop offs. Policies and budgets are moral documents. Talk to your local legislators and push for legislation to fund abortion care in your communities. Many cities have already done it! Help ensure abortion clinics are able to open in your neighborhood. Demand your local prosecutors stop prosecuting people for the outcomes of their pregnancies. As I mentioned in our fourth episode, I messaged my city council-member on Twitter about a gap in Washington DC’s protections for people who help someone self-managing an abortion, and she put her team on it and now the law has changed. Getting involved can make a huge difference.
Roe v. Wade. I think we all know the deal at this point–that the landmark Supreme Court ruling was overturned in 2022. However, many might be surprised to learn that abortion rights advocates are not advocating for the restoration of Roe. Why is that?
Renee: This is such a good question! I think it can be quite confusing. Roe v. Wade legalized abortion across the country, but over 50 years there were restrictions and barriers put in place to weaken that right. The Supreme Court upheld that Medicaid does not have to cover abortion coverage, banned certain abortion procedures, and didn’t intervene in Texas’ law allowing strangers to sue anyone helping to provide an abortion, therefore while someone may have the right to an abortion, the ability to afford that abortion or physically access it is not guaranteed. What we’re hoping is not just to rebuild the rough patchwork of access we had before, but this time ensure that we protect abortion for everyone, everywhere, no matter what insurance they have, how much money they have, how old they are, where they live, how far along they are in their pregnancy, or what their immigration status is. Roe wasn’t real for so many people who needed abortion access most, so saying we’ll ‘restore Roe’ means that we’ll restore access for some people and doesn’t offer a plan for the rest of us.
Each episode has guests share calls-to-action and you all even share your own in the form of book recommendations. Given that this newsletter is all about giving people ways to action based on the content they hear, I was delighted to hear these sections each episode. There are lots of great resources, but this topic can be overwhelming.
What action do you both recommend folks start with?
Regina: On the most basic level, I think folks can look up their local elections and set a reminder to vote. Every single time. Look, I have two young kids and it can be tough to remember primaries and off-year elections amid all the things. Believe me. But as LaTosha Brown of the Black Voters Matter Fund explains on the podcast, voting is a harm reduction strategy. So start with voting, every single election. And then get five people you know to vote. You can also look up what restrictions your state has on abortion. We discuss in episode three, Good States, Bad States? Not So Fast, that there are no good states for abortion. Your state might have some surprising restrictions. Learn what they are and contact your local elected officials to see what might be done to decriminalize abortion, like Renee did in DC. Abortion is a local issue as much as it’s a national issue. And while we are limited in what steps we can take to change the conservative supermajority on the Supreme Court, we can take a strong stand in our communities to try to minimize the impact.
Renee: There are so many different crises happening right now, and I know for some it can be hard to fit yet another action item into their daily life. So what I like to suggest is that everyone think about the actions that you already take every single day and think about how you can fit abortion access into it. Do you like to make donations? Perhaps you can add an abortion fund or local clinic to your list. Do you like to volunteer? See if your local abortion clinic takes volunteers or the abortion fund takes volunteers. When I can, I drive people to their appointments or give them a place to stay at my home. Maybe it’s a smaller action like saying the word abortion more, sharing your abortion stories, or reflecting on how you and your loved ones show up for pregnant people in your lives. Changed behavior is what will make a difference in the life of someone who needs an abortion and bring us closer towards liberating abortion.
Is there any new or upcoming work that you would like to share with us?
Regina: Yes! Thank you so much for asking. We have a book coming out in October from Amistad/HarperCollins, titled Liberating Abortion: Our Legacy, Stories, and Vision for How We Save Us. This book is the book both of us wish we’d had when we had our abortions. For far too long, people of color have lacked two essential resources: back-to-basics sex education and knowledge of how other people of color manage their reproductive rights. Many of us weren’t taught the birds and the bees in medically accurate, sex-positive ways. In Liberating Abortion, we provide an in-depth history of how anti-abortion lawmakers have used restrictions on abortion to bar people of color from wielding their power and controlling their bodies and lives. And we provide a vision for a new, more encompassing future centered in reproductive justice. We want every person of color who has had or will have an abortion to know that they are not alone—they are probably not even the first person in their family to have an abortion. We have been silenced or made to feel ashamed about our reproductive decisions, but this has always been our movement and issue, and it’s time to reclaim our role in achieving reproductive freedom for future generations.
Renee: Yes! We’re super excited for our book to come out and for everyone to read it. I hope that everyone who has had abortions and wants to share their stories checks out We Testify, the organization I founded that works with people who’ve had abortions to share their stories. We have tons of leadership opportunities, storytelling and media trainings, and ways for you to get involved and connect with other people who’ve had abortions. We also have fabulous I Had An Abortion tee shirts and other items that will help you get the abortion conversation started!
If this show’s format / topic interests you, you might also want to check out the Sounds Like Impact interview with Ann Marie Awad and Kate O’Connell of National Emergency podcast.
