🎙Interview: Melissa Giraud & Andrew Grant-Thomas
🎙Interview: Melissa Giraud & Andrew Grant-Thomas
8/21/24
Melissa Giraud (she/her) is co-founder and co-director of EmbraceRace, an organization that curates and creates tools, community spaces and networks for adults to raise kids (of all colors) who are thoughtful, informed and brave about race.
Melissa has spent a lifetime trying to center the voices, experiences and concerns of children and families - with a particular interest in immigrant kids of color and first-generation children - through her work as a 4th grade teacher, an NPR radio producer, an education equity consultant, and now with EmbraceRace. Melissa is multiracial (Black/White) daughter of immigrants from Dominica and Quebec. She is raising two amazing kids with her EmbraceRace co-founder and life partner, Andrew Grant-Thomas.
Andrew Grant-Thomas (he/him) co-founded and co-directs EmbraceRace. He is a long-time racial and social justice researcher and advocate who has worked on issues from mass incarceration to PK-12 educational segregation, immigration to death penalty abolition, race and redistricting to structural racialization. Through it all, and now at EmbraceRace, he champions efforts he believes can make a meaningful difference for real people and communities - not 100 years from now, but in his lifetime and the lifetimes of his two tween children.
Andrew is dad to two amazing kids, a partner to Melissa, an only child, a long-time racial justice guy, a Black man of Jamaican origins in the United States, born on the 4th of July.
Learn more about the The EmbraceRace Podcast by visiting their website. You can also keep up with the organization and show via Instagram @embracerace.
What made you all decide to start the organization EmbraceRace?
Having kids! When we started EmbraceRace in 2016, support for caregivers who wanted to be intentional about raising kids around race, especially for parents like us raising kids of color, were few. It was a major gap in racial justice work in general where we often focus solely on structural impediments to racial justice - segregation, systemic job discrimination, the way we fund our schools, etc. Of course, changing racialized and unfair systems and structures is critical. But in order to change structures we need to raise better agents of change! That’s why raising kids who are thoughtful, informed and brave about race is so important.
How do you think the EmbraceRace podcast has helped with the mission and/or vision of the organization?
One of the obstacles to racial justice is misleading information and myths that predominate about race and kids. Myths like, “young kids don’t see race,” or “talking about race makes you racist.” We were excited to start the podcast with Season 1 where we took down some of those myths and talked about how kids ACTUALLY learn about race. Countering false or misleading notions with research-backed information, and making clear what we know and don’t know, is critical to doing this and any race work in a country where the counter narrative runs so deep.
Also, because race is complicated and racial experience is extremely varied, we like to bring in the voices of community members and collaborators who together bring us diverse perspectives, advice and research-backed interventions. We were able to do that with the podcast.
Lastly, our community asked for a podcast! That’s how many of them like to consume information, that’s how they fit it in. A busy pastor and mom told us, “I just want to be able to listen to your content while I’m cutting vegetables.” We wanted to increase access with the podcast.
What advice would you give to other organizations that are thinking about starting a podcast?
Podcasts, like radio shows, always take more work than the uninitiated think it will. So get good, experienced people to think that through with you. We had a fantastic production team.
What is the most common question you get from parents / caregivers about navigating the topic of race with children?
Caregivers most often ask, “how do I talk to (young) kids about race? Hiding in that question for some is the belief that kids can’t perceive racial differences until they are able to have full conversations about it. But research shows that kids start developing their understanding of race very early - as early as 3 months old they are perceiving racial differences. In Season 1, we start with an episode about when the youngest kids are perceiving race, what that even means, and what it means for our parenting. (See: Myth #1: Young kids (especially babies) don't see race.) We also have a great episode about talking to kids about race. (See: Myth #4: Talking about race makes you racist.)
Back to school is upon us. How do you think teachers can play a role in helping children be race conscious in a respectful way?
We must underline that EmbraceRace has A LOT of resources on race and kids aimed at caregivers with kids 0 to 13, which is our target audience. We have a huge webinar repository of interviews with experts and practitioners and many additional resources. For early childhood, see Teaching and Learning About Race: Fantastic Practice in Early Childhood. For later elementary, see Teaching and Learning About Race: Fantastic Practice in Late Elementary.
With an election coming up in the U.S. and the racial tension that surrounds it, what advice do you have for parents or caregivers to navigate this time?
Ooo boy! We’ve not been here before (the matchup was unexpected) but we’ve also been here before! What’s key is not to avoid the topic with kids. They understand when someone is being fair or unfair and have experienced that themselves. It’s unfair to call someone unqualified to be president because they are a woman or because they are Black and Asian, for example. For a quick overview: 4 Starting Points for Conversations About Race with Kids. Also check out this conversation with the amazing Dr. Briscoe-Smith, Parenting in the Age of Trump - she got very specific! There are also many resources on supporting kids in moments of racialized violence and on multiracial identity at embracerace.org.
Are there plans for a future season of EmbraceRace podcast?
Yes! We’re still planning Season 2. We’re very happy with our first season AND we know Season 2 will be even better (because the hosts will be more … seasoned!).
Is there any new or upcoming work that you would like to share with us?
Thanks for asking! We have so much new work we’re proud of so we’ll put forth two. First, our framework and practices for raising kids to EmbraceRace. Second, our Drawing Differences art lessons for kids and families to encourage kids to draw diversely and talk about what they see and make. The best way to find out about upcoming events or the upcoming podcast season (when we can tell you more) is to subscribe to our newsletter.
If this show’s topic interests you, you might also want to check out the Sounds Like Impact interview with Adell Coleman and Chris Colbert of Say Their Name podcast.